Now it's lap dancing
Does anyone remember the pole dancing club in Plaza, Greenwich from last year? It would appear the proposals, having been beaten once if we recall correctly, are back, only this time it is slightly different. Instead of pole dancing, it's now lap dancing, and there is a planning inspectorate meeting about this on the 16th/17th/18th October.
posted by greenwich.watch at 10:54 am
21 Comments:
Dont see whats wrong with it myself. I'd have no objection if someone wanted to start a lap-dancing club near where I live.
But then some backwards people think sex is taboo.
Sex isn't the problem, the problem is the kind of men who get a kick out of throwing money at a complete stranger for her to take her clothes off. I'm no prude, but most men I know don't enjoy visiting these places and think of them as seedy and do empathise with the degradation and humiliation (and yes I know some women like it, that doesn't mean it's not true!)these places inflict on the women involved.
As a woman, I would not feel comfortable having such a place near me because I would be worried about sexed-up dodgy men hanging around. They should stay at home in front of the internet rather than be congregating in one location. As a student I lived near a brothel, and had to walk the long way round after dark to get to my flat, as there were incidents and it was not safe. I know this isn't a brothel, but it's the same kind of clientele.
Men who pay for sexual contact are pathetic, sad, revolting specimens. And, without fail, they have tiny penises.
No-one forces girls to work in these places, as for degradation, well they know what the job entails and they know what the money is - the girls are free to leave, unlike some brothels. Obviously theres enough men who do like visiting lapdance clubs, otherwise they'd have gone out of business?
As for saying its the same clientele as a brothel, in some cases you're right, but in some cases it could be a married man on a lads night out who wants to have fun with girls but doesn't want to cheat on his wife.
With brothels, a well run brothel is a lot less likely to cause trouble than the crack and heroin riddled street prostitutes you get hanging round places like plumstead of a night time.
Personally, having seen the Dutch attitude to sex, I can see how backwards this country is. They have red light districts full of legal, tax paying, prostitutes. Theres live sex shows, theres lap dancing, pole dancing, peep shows, many porn shops. Hell, they even have video booths with tissues!! Thing is, there's not that much trouble. The worst problem in the biggest red light district in amsterdam is pickpockets when it gets dark. Prostitutes get healthcare and help to find a different job if thats what they want to do.
And the beauty of it is, you can find these red light districts all across holland, nestled in suburban areas, and it all seems to work fine.
It is now being referred to as a strip club.
I have been sent a message, saying that Our Dear Leader is going to chair a "pre-hearing meeting" on Tuesday 9 October, in the Council Chamber, Woolwich Town Hall, at 7.00pm.
At this meeting, it appears that the Leader will report on what the Council is doing in preparation for the appeal, and outline the arguments that could work in favour of those who are campaigning against the licence for the strip club.
If you care about seeing off this unwanted "attraction", you will need to pitch in (attend the pre-meeting, understand the arguments, write letters, etc) - because the other side have any amount of money to throw at professional legal people to make fine points of law and precedent work for them - don't expect others to do it for you.
Ewwww, too much information: "t" has a mind like a lavatory bowl. I take that "t" is unmarried and/or has no daughters of your own.
Strip clubs are often a way to ensnare women in "assisted prostitution" (pimped) which funds serious organised crime including drugs and people smuggling.
An estimated half million women are trafficked annually for the purpose of sexual slavery. They are "exported" to over 50 countries including Britain., "The Real Sex Traffic", Winner of 2006 Broadcast Award for
Best Documentary.
Women are brought to the UK, with promises of a job as a nanny or whatever, and then when they get here they are put to work in a strip club to "work off their debt" (and their passports taken away).
t, re above, you are trotting out the same old arguments without reading what I said or thinking it through. I know the girls can leave, that doesn't mean it's not degrading! Plenty of people put up with degradation for financial or other reasons, that doesn't change the fact that it is wrong to degrade another human being by paying them to take their clothes off for your gratification when you know they wouldn't do it in any other circumstance. It is the financially powerful taking advantage of the financially disadvantaged. The fact that it happens does not mean it is right.
Second, I acknowledged that there is a market for this, but the clientele is still a minority of men.
Third - 'having fun with other girls' sounds like the definition of cheating to me, I don't think his wife would appreciate the distinction you make.
For the record, I'm married with 2 children, one boy and one girl. I have never paid for sex (unless you count restaurants and cinemas), I've also never bothered to go to a strip club as I've heard they're a rip off.
To suggest that my mind is like a lavatory bowl, to me that says that you think sex is dirty, I'm sorry if thats the case.
As for sex slavery, I stated that girls working at lapdance clubs are free to leave which is not the case for some brothels, I detest sex slavery as much as anyone. This is why I mentioned the Dutch approach - their open-mindedness regarding sex and regulation of sex as an industry means that they dont have a sex slavery problem and that the police protect working girls rather than criminalising them.
'Ewwww, too much information' = i like what i know and i'm not prepared to think any differantly.
'I take that' = i assume based on the limited evidence i have allowed myself to percive.
'are often a way' = this example is every example.
Not big, not clever.not persuaive
Indigo is not renowned for letting logic get in the way of her religiously based preconceptions. See her endless boring rants on the casino threads.
Saying something twice, "t", does not make it true. You said that the women who work in lapdance clubs are free to leave; you said it again, even after I pointed you at research about human sex trafficking in the UK.
Yeah, go on, ignore anything that upsets your comfortable little world where people are "free" to be exploited.
Ditto to the "suburban bushwacker" (a bit of contradiction in terms, isn't that). I may not be "big ... clever ... persuasive" but the professional research should persuade you. Unless you have already closed your mind to anything that gets in the way of you getting your jollies.
Dear me, "video booths with tissues", how imaginative. Not. Fulfilling a real need, there, getting other people to clean up after you. What's wrong with a video in your own house/room and you buy and dispose of the fracking tissues?
@Anonymous 7:01 PM,
Come on, coward, tell us who you are. The grounds for my opposition to the supercasino are well-known and well-argued on the basis of published research and the experience of other developed countries - the principle reason being that the opening of a "resort-sized" casino is always, ALWAYS, followed by a huge increase in organised crime. Then everyone suffers. Nothing to do with religion.
The other thing that galvanised me were the disgusting breaches of trust by Anschutz staff (in the context of submissions to the CAP) and disgraceful presumption and deception by a couple of people on one large stakeholder group.
If you are going to try grotesquely to misrepresent me, then at least have the balls not to hide behind "anonymous".
indigo
RE: 'Ditto to the "suburban bushwacker"
I have not told you what my opinion of this issue is, i have offered you some feedback on your attempts to influence the opioions of others.
RE:(a bit of contradiction in terms, isn't that)
How is a contradiction implied?
Good luck.
I believe regarding lap-dance clubs we're talking at cross purposes. I have some friends who visit a large lapdancing club. They describe beautiful English girls (so obviously not trafficked) and they earn very good money. If that is what planned in Greenwich then I cannot see anything wrong with it.
Obviously this is a long way from the image of a desperately unhappy eastern european girl with no passport.
What is so upsetting about a 'wanking booth'? No-one has to clean anything up as I think they have bins. If there wasn't the demand then they wouldn't exist. And why should a video have to be kept in our own room? Again, that to me suggests repression or an attitude that sex must be kept hidden (and again I'm sorry if thats the case). Sure, we shouldn't force sex down peoples throats (as some media do) and we should keep it away from kids, but I see nothing wrong with it all being in the open in an appropriate adult place. As they say at the live sex shows in Holland 'See now, do later'.
Finally Indigo, you've wrongly assumed my marital/parental status, you've accused me of having a mind like a lavatory bowl for mentioning the Dutch sex system which has virtually eliminated sex slavery and works really well - yet despite looking to another country for an example I'm also accused of staying in my comfortable little world. You've talked down to me with "saying something twice doesn't make it true", when I have been truthful. I'd like to know why you think its alright to behave like this? Do you believe you're superior or are you just not very nice?
t: "I'd have no objection if someone wanted to start a lap-dancing club near where I live."
Ah, but those are hollow words. The way you've phrased it suggests that you don't live near the affected area. I _do_ happen to live near it and I do object. Perhaps we can look forward to you objecting to this one because you'd rather it was located next door to your house?
Otherwise stfu and stop trolling.
Welcome to potty-mouthed "t's" black and white world, where you are either
superior or not very nice?
Eons of human evolution, civilisation, individuation and differentiation, boiled down to two conditions.
Yes, let's hear you objecting to the planning application for the Plaza's strip joint because you want it located next door to your house. Do us all a favour. Except your neighbours, presumably.
Anon, you're correct that I don't live right next to where the proposed club is, but this is a greenwich borough focussed website and I am a resident of greenwich borough.
Re: "stfu and stop trolling", unless you have something credible to add (which so far you haven't), you come across as a NIMBY type.
surely the point is that no one seems bothered about lap dancing in Woolwich, but only in Penninsula Ward which happens to be represented by who?
"you come across as a NIMBY type."
Spot on. I don't want a lap-dancing club in my neighbourhood. You do seem to want one in yours. So campaign against this proposal and start lobbying for one to be built next door to you.
Otherwise stfu and stop trolling. Your words really are completely meaningless while you continue to argue in hypothetical terms.
Welcome to Indigos world where we mis-interpet and twist what people say (or at best where we completely miss the point). Where we make accusations and assumptions based on thinking we have the moral high-ground - and where these 'morals' must be adhered to by everyone and anyone who disagrees will be subjected to intolerance and childish name calling.
There's lots of places about that I dont agree with or like. For instance, I try not to visit banks unless absolutely necessary. I don't like fish so I don't visit fishmongers. I dont care for religion so I don't visit places of worship. If you don't like lapdancing well you can guess what my advice is.
As for lapdancing in Woolwich, well thats very near to me and I'm not bothered in the slightest.
Finally, I just see anon saying "It is the financially powerful taking advantage of the financially disadvantaged. The fact that it happens does not mean it is right".
I quite agree with this but this isn't about lapdance clubs. I'd suggest this is more a symptom of capitalism and endless bad governments because it happens everywhere.
I am a woman and I agree with t. Lap dancing clubs are not necessarily evil and neither are the men who frequent them. In this country people are far too uptight about sex and live in the Victoria era...men are not "perverts" just because they want to look at naked women - I think you'll find that's perfectly normal. Grow up and get a life!
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